BDSM is the sign of a sick society

IANAD, but I think your premises are wrong.

Are you talking about bondage and discipline, or are you talking about sado-masochism? It seems like you're specifically focusing on the former. They are different. Sadism is also different from masochism. Everyone who ever took pleasure in scratching an itch, receiving a firm and deep massage, or eating spicy foods, has a bit of masochist in them. That's different from submissive behaviour. Why didn't you make these important distinctions?

Submission is not about lack of responsibility, it is about lack of freedom. They are linked, but the attractive part of submission is not the renunciation of responsibility. It is the renunciation of power and freedom. In actual fact, a lot of submissive behaviour has to do with taking blame for things that no one would really hold you responsible for. ("You've been a very bad boy....") It's about taking more "responsibility" than you are really responsible for. If only the numbers of such people actually balanced against the number of real evaders, those who seek even to avoid the pain of work and consequence.

Furthermore, you fail to distinguish between people with unrestrained megalomania, and those who recognize that they are megalomaniacal, and yet take steps to ensure that this does not interfere with the lives of others. Sound contradictory? That's part of the fun of BD. The simple fact of the matter is that the dominator is such in a bedroom context only. There are those who cannot tell the difference between fantasy and reality; these are the ones that harm others and themselves. However, it's not entirely clear that simply taking delight in a power trip is harmful if it occurs in clearly-defined contexts with willing participants.

Finally, you assume that "we live in a society which produces people with these urges." You state this as fact. I challenge this. Isn't it entirely possible that we actually live in a society in which these urges have free reign, rather than existing under artificial constraints? We obviously have the natural potential for this sort of behaviour; what makes you think that it's a neuroticizing effect of culture? Rather than a breakdown of cultural accretions which may have been causing more harm than good? It seems to me that all evidence points to this conclusion, rather than yours.

"Celebrating" anything out of liberal reactionary reflex for "diversity" is stupid. It's the new conformity. I agree that our culture has its big, neurotic problems. But this ain't it, buddy. Unless you want to play the sin card, you're going to have to be a little clearer on what you mean by "sick." As I understand it, you can't really call something a sickness unless it interferes with the subject's life or ability to have meaningful relationships. But who's to be the judge of that? The psychologist, or the participants?

And do not just downvote this because you disagree with it.

K9: Pain is not necessarily your body's way of telling you that something is a "stupid" thing to do. Ever have a spinal tap? That hurts like ever-righteous fuck. Got mine when I was five years old. But I woulda died if I hadn't received it. Was that "idiotic?" Furthermore, I reiterate my previous examples of the coincidence of pleasure and pain: scratching an itch, receiving a firm deep-tissue massage, and eating spicy foods. Is it "idiotic" to like a good, hot curry? Is a spicy diet the sign of a "sick society?"

"Submissives give up all human dignity?" That sure sounds like a objective, scientific diagnosis. In my mother tongue (English), we have a proverb -- perhaps you've heard it: "There's no accounting for taste." Perhaps you've missed what I wrote in the last paragraph of the main body of this writeup. Do not try to do psychoanalysis or sociology on the basis of your own unquestioned hangups.

As for how "antisocial, primitive and barbaric" behaviour can be considered healthy or fun, perhaps you've forgotten that for a million years the human race was "antisocial, primitive and barbaric." We evolved in foraging bands, not in societies of city and state. Because of these artificial constraints, which do not coincide with our natural habitat we may sometimes need to blow off some steam. Not everyone will blow off steam in the same way, nor does it make any sense to say that one way to blow of steam which occurs in a context of consent is nonetheless "wrong" or "sick."

Solipsistic moralizing masquerading as objective science is the sign of a sick society.

Cletus the Foetus grants K9 one troll point.

If anything, BDSM allows people to express their desires for domination and/or submission, sadism and/or masochism in a socially healthy way. If these urges were not expressed sexually, with the full consent of the partners involved, then they would most likely manifest themselves in other, destructive forms, such as:

A: Neurosis, brought about by bottling up these "bad", "naughty", "wrong" and "shameful" feelings. Preventing expression of desire doesn't make it magically disappear and can, instead, severely damage a person psychologically.
B: Sociopathy. The need to dominate could be expressed by intimidating and/or attacking innocent people. The desire to submit to control can, left unchecked, lead to dissolution of identity and absorption into a hive-mind. And, clearly, we don't need people wandering around with the need to inflict pain on passersby.

Sex is a Dionysian outlet. It allows us to set aside our rational selves, the selves that we need to live in a society, and exult in the Id. Sublimating those desires we can't express socially into sex play (the reverse of the classic definition of sublimation) allows us to blow off steam, so to speak. Assuming, of course, both partners are consenting.

I, personally, believe that the existence and acceptance of consensual BDSM, and other "kinky" sex play, is the sign of a society healthy enough to know how to deal with the darker sides of its members.

Think about it. For centuries, churchgoers have been going to confession, asking for punishment from priests. A dominant in a Church-controlled society could (at least partially) satisfy his natural urges by becoming a man of the cloth, assigning penances of varying cruelty to believers in exchange for the forgiveness of their sins. If there was a stronger sexual component to his urges which the confessional couldn't satisfy - well, there were always plenty of altar boys around. The submissives thus had a predictable outlet available every Sunday for their control-surrendering impulses, as sure as the church bells tolled.

The principles of BDSM are, in many ways, an integral part of the Christian religion. Taken to their extreme, flagellant monks could inflict grievous wounds on their own bodies and believe themselves closer to heaven. Black-robed Inquisitors could take holy delight in torturing heretics on the rack and burning them at the stake. Next to these atrocities, voluntary dripping candle wax and lashes from a leather whip aren't just innocuous; they're downright progressive.

With BDSM's rise in popularity, the religious ecstasy associated with sadomasochistic practices has largely been replaced with that of the sexual variety. "Forgive me father" has, for many dominants and submissives, been supplanted by "whip me master." Dominance and submission can now exist in a community of voluntary association, their pleasurable aspects highlighted and destructive impacts minimized. These impulses are a part of many people's nature; their manifestation as BDSM may not be the sign of a sick society so much as a secular one in which the chains of the past don't carry the weight they once did.

Kinky sex has never precipitated genocide or inquisition. Don't waste your energy pointing fingers at this straw man - if you want to fix the problems of society, you've got to find their roots.

The rising popularity of BDSM may be a result of the sexual repression that exists to a greater and lesser degree in our society, but I'm not convinced it is the sign of a "sick" society. It is an activity that brings great joy to many people, and it is an activity with does not involve anyone against their will or cause any permanent harm or even any temporary harm, since I would be very hesistant to call mild pain which is enjoyed harm.

Don't get all freudian on me, and I won't get all freudian on you. Okay?

Surely, anyway, this is based on the idea that we all share the same tastes, and that some tastes, because the majority don't share them, are in some way sick?

One goes into these situations with one's own prejudices and presumptions intact. For K9 (no, I'm not bitching, I think K9's opinion is perfectly valid and intelligent), with his/her stated views, to go into a BDSM scene would be, yes, 'sick' (his/her words, not my judgement). For someone who didn't see it this way, and simply saw it as good clean wholesome fun, to go into a BDSM scene would not be the sign of a sick anything.

/Me forgets what point me is trying to make

Different strokes for different folks. For me to indulge in perfectly 'normal' heterosexual sex, with the lights turned off and in the missionary position, of course, would, to my mind, be the sign of a sick society. Sign of male dominance, compulsory heterosexuality, my own self-destructive urges, whatever. Presumably, to your average perfectly normal vanilla heterosexual, wouldn't see it this way. But then, I'd see them as playing out a microcosm of sexism, homophobia and sheer, unadulterated, boredom and apathy. (Do me a favour and don't vote me down because you don't agree with this premise. It's an example, not something I think should hold true for everyone). Sadomasochism, as far as I'm concerned, is the sign of a society comfortable with its desires, and not desperate to hide behind 'natural' and 'normal' activities.

I'm a country boy, and quite naïve. For all these years, I've thought that sex was a matter of getting naked and rolling around with somebody I care about, or even somebody I love. I really did think it had something to do with affection. There's a story -- probably a myth -- that the Inuit refer to sex as "laughing together". They may not really say that, but it strikes a chord with people. They remember it and repeat it. It always made perfect sense to me. Lots of others seem to agree, so I never gave it much thought.

Oh, how wrong I was!

Now I discover that we've all been confused. If we were really in touch with ourselves, if we were really comfortable with our sexuality and had genuinely honest and loving relationships with our partners, we wouldn't waste our time on that sick "affection" crap. Instead, we'd give in to our natural, instinctive desire to dress up in SS uniforms and drip hot wax on each other's nipples.

All this time, I've been in the hellish grip of a twisted, self-destructive urge to kiss pretty girls. What the hell was I thinking?! All the healthy people have been tying them to racks and hitting them with swagger sticks, like we were meant to do! What sane people would want to take each other's clothes off, when they could be putting on some kind of ad hoc amateur theatrical production instead?

I admit it: I've been one of those sick freaks who gets off on physical intimacy instead of hardware. What a fool I've been! But I'm ready to repent. I've seen the light, and I want to get my life on the right track.

The number of scandals with paedophiles in children's home in the United Kingdom is sickening. Positions of power have always been abused in different ways. Are we to say that the beating from a nun was always metered out just for punishment, or to sate their appetite for sadism?

Laws change, too, as parodied by this Chris Morris' Brass Eye Special quote:

Narrator: Victorian Britain. This man is having sex with a ten year old girl. ... But this isn't paedophilia, the girl's a whore.

Girl Whore: Can I have some money now, please?

Is it better that BDSM has come 'out of the closet', where good, safe guidelines can be drawn up? Or is it better that it be practised in secret, where the willingness of the bottom could be doubtful?

Surely the mark of a sick society is one that represses urges such as BDSM and says 'they don't exist', letting them continue unhindered, harming innocent, non-consenting victims?

Modern society is sick, and I believe that BDSM is, indeed, on the whole a symptom of it, like a fever is a symptom of an infection. This is because personally, I have a fairly good idea of where my urges to submit come from: My relationship with modern society. I can just about cope with it, 'just about' being the operative phrase.

Let me explain. To illustrate, I'll divide people into three classes. Of course, any division of people into classes is futile in a greater perspective: There are people who divide people into groups, and there are people who don't. But for the purpose of this writeup, allow me to do so.

There are people who can cope: They choose life, to use the Trainspotting turn of phrase.

There are people who can't cope: They choose freaking out, killing themselves, joining the Scientologists or Hare Krishnas. They choose heroin, choose living off a monthly handout from the government, choose a career as an eccentric artist if they've the talent.

And then there's those in between, like me. I can just about hack having control over my own destiny. I can just about hack getting an education, working a 40-hour week, paying the rent, doing the laundry, maintaining an acceptable social life, keeping the house clean, the whole nine yards. But it's hard.

And I like to be allowed to let go for a moment. There is glorious freedom in loss of self-control, as anybody who's ever had a great night out on the town with the aid of a drink or eleven knows. I've known plenty of people who drink 'til they're drunk and smoke 'til they're senseless to satisfy this urge.

Me, I like to be told what to do, to fall under someone's command, to relinquish control, to be someone's plaything instead of my own person. This is how I lose control, and it is safe, it doesn't cost a thing, and I get to please someone else at the same time. It's all good. It is indeed symptomatic of my problematic relationship with the world today, but it is, on the whole, a benign symptom: I really like having someone collar and leash me, talk dirty to me, and come on my face.