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finite infinity

created by The Narrator

(idea) by The Narrator (3.6 y) (print)   ?   (I like it!) Thu Mar 08 2001 at 22:27:03

Finite Infinity is actually a misleading term. I am simply referring to a theory I have formed to do with the nature of infinity in a mathematical sense. Keep in mind that for this concept to work, you have to be a subscriber to the theory that a number divided by zero is equal to infinity. I agree with this on the very straightforward concept that zero will go into any number an infinite number of times, and that infinity will divide into any number zero times.

Also, accept the notation ^- to refer to a repeating symbol (a line) above the preceding number, as in repeating decimals. So 0.3 recurring would be written as 0.3^- and 0.54 recurring would be 0.5^-4^-, and 0.23 with only the 3 recurring would be 0.23^-. I hope that makes sense. Also, I will use the variable 'I' to refer to Infinity, for lack of the infinity symbol. Do not confuse this with 'i', the imaginary number symbol, as for the purposes of this demonstration imaginiray numbers are not required. So here it goes:

First, some basic theory: if x/y = z then x = zy and y = x/z. Let us apply this to the zero-division rule:

x/0 = I
Rearrange:
I*0 = x
Again, with x as 5:
5/0 = I
I*0 = 5

This rearrangement of equations brings up the point that infinity times 0 is equal to a number. However, as x can have any value, we need to distinguish between multiple infinities. This is a concept most consider ludicrous, including me, however I feel it is something interesting to toy with.

Allright, let us write our infinites with a new use of the repeating concept. If we can have a repeating decimal, why not a repeating numeral? So, the particular infinity that comes from 5 divided by 0 would be 50^- (here is the first instance of my repeating notation, so be clear that this refers to 5000000... into infinity). The particular infinity that comes from 12 divided by 0 would be 120^-, and so forth.

Now we must break another fundamental rule of mathematics, which is that any number multiplied by zero must equal zero. As the above equations demonstrate, this rule is defied when the number in question is infinity. So, 50^- * 0 would be 5, 120^- * 0 would be 12, and so forth. This implies that zero is not actually zero. Again, this can be hard to swallow, but let us assume that it might be possible to have a repeating decimal where the particular digit that repeats is not the last one! This does not immediately make sense, but look at:

0 = 0.0^-1.

This is, at first, apparently quite insane. It refers to a decimal composed of an infinite string of zeroes, with a one at the end! How can their be an end to infinity? Their can't. Unless of course we can reduce infinity! Hence, an infinitely large number (say 50^-) is multiplied by an infinitely small one, (in this case Zero, but the special zero that is 0.0^-1), you could, in theory, end up with a finite number!

The main problem with this concept is that it defies many mathematical principles, but if you look at it logically, it sort of makes sense. For demonstrative purposes, let us apply it to a simple infinity-based operation:

20^- * 30^- = 60^-
This works, because we can look at it as the 0 denominated fractions like this:
(2/0) * (3/0) = (6/0)
And, following basic fractional calculation rules, it works. The same applies for division, addition and subtraction.

There are further issues brought up here. For example, if zero is not actually zero, then what is 5 * 0. Is it 0, or is it 0.0^5? I would say the latter, but then we raise the question of whether or not 50^- * 0.0^-1 is the same as 50^- * 0.0^-5. Some would suggest that the former is equal to 5, while the latter is equal to 25, but then you must wonder if 25/0 can be equal to either 250^- or 50^-. There is an infinite number of problems raised, but it is fun to think about, even if it (as is most likely the case) has no mathematical merit.


(idea) by ariels (2.7 d) (print)   ?   (I like it!) 2 C!s Sat Apr 19 2003 at 14:36:40

The main problem with this concept is that it doesn't work. Then again, none of the "proposals" for dividing by zero work, because none of them make any sense. Not in any BIG metaphysical sense; mathematics isn't like that. It fails along with all other proposals because of the nitty-gritty details.

The reason all these methods fail is that they can never give a field or even a ring. You can't have a field, because

0 = (1/0) * 0 = 1
in a field, and that doesn't make sense. That's why you cannot divide by zero in a field, no matter how hard you think you're trying. You can't have a ring, because
1/0 + 1 = (1 + 1*0)/0 = 1/0, so
1 = 0
You're guaranteed to get nonsense, no matter what.

But enough of generalities. Here are the specifics of why this 'un doesn't work.

The Narrator somehow omits mention of why e chooses to write

1/0 = 10000000000000000000...
and not
1/0 = 12345678901234567890...
Anything which requires arbitrary decisions is likely false. This is an arbitrary decision, and it leads us deep into the mud.

What are 2/0, 20/0 and 2000/0 in The Narrator's system?

2/0 = 20000... 20/0 = 20000... 2000/0 = 20000...
It follows, as day follows night, that 2/0=20/0=2000/0. After all, we write them down the same way. And yet 2/0*0=2, 20/0*0=20, 2000/0*0=2000. How do 3 equal numbers "remember" how to become the right one?

It gets worse. The Narrator claims that you can do arithmetic:

20^- * 30^- = 60^-
I read that as saying that 2000/0 * 3/0 = 6/0. Cool. Of course, since all these "division by zero" gizmos end up being equal, I suppose it's no big deal.

We "can" also perform all arithmetic operations. Can we really?

60^- / 30^- = (6/0)/(3/0) = 2 (due to cancellation, or plain operating on the "infinite digits representation"), but also
60^- / 30^- = 20^- (due to The Narrator's multiplication example).
We immediately conclude that 2=2/0. And, since 2/0=anything/0, we see that 2=anything/0. Similar reasoning shows that anything=anything/0 (just multiply by 1/0=10^-), and so we see that 2=anything, so anything = anything else.

This is SERIOUSLY COOL STUFF! I'll ask The Narrator for a $100 loan, and return just $2, because 2=anything, so 2=100! Tell hir what, I'll pay 50% interest, and return $3! At that rate of interest, I'm sure e will be delighted to lend me another $100!! WE'RE RICH!!!

That's the problem with nonsense: it doesn't work. Not because of THE BIGOTRY OF SELF-APPOINTED "PROFESSORS" OF MATHEMATICS TOO BUSY PRESERVING THEIR CUSHY FACULTY POSITIONS TO CARE ABOUT NEW MATH.. No, it doesn't work because it doesn't make sense.

I'll end with a challenge to the many zero divisors (I'm sure I've convinced few of them, and as we've seen 1=2, so if there's one zero divisor there are sure to be many more...). The "old math" which you disdain has some limited application in differential equations, analysis, algorithms, geometry, probability theory, and a few other fields. Bring one application of your favourite method of dividing by zero. You get to choose here! Pick any phenomenon, and demonstrate that your method is:

  1. Consistent (i.e. free of contradiction);
  2. Useful for modeling that phenomenom.

No, forget about fulfilling a+b. Pick which one you want to fulfill, and do that one.

You won't manage. It doesn't work.


printable version
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